17.5 class

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17.5 class

Postby Tim Fry » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:24 pm

All

Just though I'd bring this up as there are many other clubs who are starting to adopt this.
What do you all think about running a 17.5 brushless class. With the new brushless technology moving so quickly 13.5s are now looking like mods and I'm wondering whether it would be good to slow it down a little so if we get a new comer starting ( or for those who are not at the sharpe end ) then they can have an opportunity to learn to race rather than bounce of all the barriers.
I understand we have the minis and its a good novice class but we are predominantly a touring car club and thats what people want to race

What do you think?
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Re: 17.5 class

Postby Shawn Herrington » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:40 am

It's certainly an area to be looked at because some of the touring cars in the lower heats really do look like lairy missiles.
However I do feel it would re-distribute existing racers rather than attract new comers and therefore is only half the story.

From my point of view I could never afford to run 3 touring cars, which is why we do the Mini's. They are cheap, robust and need no setting up as such. They are the key areas a new comer will look at when starting out.

I have to disagree with you about them being a novice class. Yes, you will find novice's in there but I would rather call them an affordable class. Something a family wouldn't mind paying for.
Would you call Darren, Stuart, Grant, Simond, Keith, Dan or myself novices?

I think because they are not the fastest things that race on a Sunday the wrong label gets applied.

Some people just haven't got the money, time or patience to race Tourers and chase setups; (myself included). How many people do we eliminate from the club if we don't look at the bigger picture once in a while.

If in time said new comer likes their new found hobby they can upgrade to a touring car if they wish and start learning about setups and such like. If they don't fancy them then they can stick with the Mini and race to their hearts content. Either way the club has a new member or two.

....bringing us nicely back on topic.
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Re: 17.5 class

Postby dis96 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 am

Yes dead right shawn, we're awsome... lol ;)

But seriously, this might be something that needs looking at and discussing.

My opinion is that for a 17.5 class to work as an introduction class then there needs to be some limit on speed controllers, that is where the speed is today, and with the nosram and lrp crazy price scheme at the moment, you can't even just make it a price limit.

If you want 17.5 as a slower class a speedo without cheat mode, turbo mode or similar needs to be used, or the 17.5's are just going to get faster and faster, the same as 13.5's which are easily faster than 10.5's used to be with the right controller and motor.

Minis are still a great introduction to RC, and they are so robust they hold their value in the second hand market to help drivers move on to tc when they are ready too.
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Re: 17.5 class

Postby walden » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:07 pm

I think personally 17.5 would be a good move to hopefully keep speed under control, i do own a 13.5 but i'm still using the olde faithfull 27t brushed for the time being i can't see the point of chucking out my motors just to keep up with technology, once my brushed motors are finished i will then go out and get a 17.5 though, i only do this hobby for fun i can honestly say i don't mind which heat or final i end up in, its all about a good days racing and have a chat/laugh with friends this is what racing should be all about, without someone keep saying "Marshall" Marshall" cos they can't control the speed of the car and others being hungary to be the winner all the time.

Last sundays meeting i was in the D final, and the grid positions i must say do need looking at the way it was set out everyone was basically sitting on top each other, they need to be a good 2m distance apart but like all finals everyone wants to be first through the first bend which is frustrating cos time is lost through stupidness everyone just piles up, yes accidents do happen but the hobby is very expensive and no one can afford to keep replacing parts.

Speedo technology will always increase no matter what, cos everyone wants to be fast has the next person, recently i heard a brand new LRP SXX is coming out with 10 profiles, 10 turbo settings and can be linked to a PC, this speedo is going to be the mother of all, i think this is where the BRCA need to come and laydown a few ground rules before accidents will start to happen, i know this may never happen but they must see whats going on.

I have two boys who would like to start racing, but like Shawn says its so expensive to run 3 tourers and time/money so i will go down the route of the mini's for the boys, to hopefully keep costs down.

Just an idea when the next winter championship comes up have a seperate class for 17.5 and see what happens also hopefully WKRCC will have another BIG MEET :D :D :D (Hint) and have a 17.5 class aswell.
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Re: 17.5 class

Postby THancock » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:48 pm

I can almost guarantee that if you introduce 17.5 as a class, beginners will still be crashing and people will still complain that they're too fast and want a slower motor for the entry level (no offence intended there, it's just a well known fact in R/C :) ).

I don't know how many times I say it, but you have to keep repeating to beginners that speed is not the way to win a race unless you can race a full 5 minutes without hitting anything. I see so many cars/drivers in the lower finals that build up a nice lead by stringing 2 or 3 good laps together and then crash only to lose the lead, swiftly followed by a few more frantic laps where they desperately try to catch up and only end up crashing more. I went through that same learning process, I remember judging a good nights racing by the size of the repair bill :D but it eventually dawned on me that I needed to improve consistency rather than straight line speed and when I did, the lap times started to tumble.

13.5 is the most widely supported class in the UK so the best advice you can give is get a reliable 13.5 motor (like a Novak), get a good speedo that has power profiles, turn the timing back on the motor (less power), put the speedo on the lowest profile (less power) and go and have fun. That way they protect their equipment in the early days by not blowing up or melting their motor, they protect their car because there is less energy when they do crash, the car is more controllable because there is less power AND most importantly, as they improve they can slowly increase the timing of the motor and/or raise the speedo profile one setting, thus protecting their investment in equipment.

Maybe it should be made clear that 13.5 is the lowest number of winds you can run in the class - it's not mandatory. If you want to run a 17.5, a 27t brushed or even a 21.5 then that is fine.

You also don't need to run high end carbon fibre kits to do well in Touring Cars. I remember not so long ago when Kev Sturt was running a Tamiya TT01 around Eastbourne and making the A final each week. They are cheap cars, relatively robust and great for beginners. Stick a bearing set, a stock 27t motor and some oil filled shocks on it and in the right hands, I suspect it could probably make the B final at West Kent quite easily.

Just my view :)

- Tim.
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Re: 17.5 class

Postby Tim Fry » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:10 pm

I'm not saying it will be soley for novice drivers but now that 13.5 has progressed it has almost become a modified class. I'm just thinking that there are some people who would benefit from a slightly slower car. I appreciate that there will always be a new speedo coming out that someone will buy to make them go faster but I just feel we should consider a slower class. Looking at the lap times the top guys are faster now than when they ran a 10.5 a year or so ago.

The minis are a great way to start racing but most people want to run tourers from the off. The minis them selves have got faster but with the slower speed they hardly break and they give really close racing.
I'm not saying we should reinvent the wheel or anything just offer something a little slower.

As Tim H said its all about tidy laps and with a little less power that could be easier to achieve. More like the 13.5 we used to know.
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