Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby crazybrit123 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:52 pm

Sorry chaps but I didn't fully understand this system.
It now seems to me that this combo can have the bits changed. I mean Drag brake, punch Etc correct me if I'm reading this wrong, but I thought you were changing to a Brushless system that COULD NOT be changed (closer racing).
When Ian and Myself were racing MINI in Canada they were going through a lot (and I mean a lot) of testing of different combos to make the Brushless racing as close as it is now using Brushed.
I can give you all the notes if you want to see what they have come up with if you wish.
It looks like it's down to two systems for them. One is the Hobbywing with I think 17turn Brushless motor Combo, all none boosted and the other (which will be a new system out soon if not out already} is the Orca 17t Combo and again Noon Boosted.
They have been driving Mini for quite a while now and it's the Biggest Class in Calgary. If you want to check out the club go to RCtech web site under the Canadian RC scene look for KARZ. You may have to look a bit harder for the Mini stuff but it is all there.
Cheers for now.
Andy.
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby BODYMOT » Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:41 pm

Andy, I understand what you are saying and I agree, that’s why we want to test against the motors we run now. The main difference from Canada is we run any sealed can brushed 20T limit motors, some have more torque, some have more top end. Ansmann 21T is rated at 25,500 rpm compared to the silver can which is a lot slower, if the Hobbywing system proves unfair advantage I be at the front saying no to them.
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby Shawn Herrington » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:20 pm

So far we have seen the Hobbywing is no faster in a straight line than any of the other brushed motors we currently use, except it's just like having a brand new Muchmore every single run.
Infact the last few rounds of the winter championship taught me that unless we had an Ansmann motor available then there was no way to compete when we are getting passed in a straight line.
I bought 2 for the last round, 1 of which lasted 2 1/2 heats before cooking and the other only lasted a lap.
They certainly are fast but mine proved expensive.

All the available adjustments really just tune the brushless to drive more like what we are used to.
Our first thoughts were to turn everything up to the max but infact through the course of using it I have slowly been turning everything down to a more useable level.
It's all tuneable by either counting flashing lights or by the included card and there's no facility do download updates via p.c.

The Australians did alot of research into finding a compatible brushless setup and sinse they love their Mini racing and have quite strict rules for the class they do seem to have embraced the change.

My opinion is there will be a 6 month transition period while the doubters sit back and watch for a while, but once the low cost and maintenance side comes to the surface then I can see most opting for it.

Any new guys can use their black cans whilst they work on their consistency so there is no need for them to think they must go and buy the extra equipment.
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby crazybrit123 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:40 pm

Thanks chaps for your replies.
I understand a bit more now.
Lets hope I can get my Mini sorted for the first Run in May.
Cheers Andy.
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby discostu » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:21 pm

im confused are you guys talking about running brushless non boosted or brushed surly the fairest way is to say you must run this combo example (hobbywing 17.5 motor)or brushed etc in my view the esc should be an open option and and motor should be spec for both brushed and brushless it seems to me the boosted esc is just an excuse for drivers who dont understand how it works to stop everybody else using them in that class.

im just gonna take every body back a few years to brushed setups if you remeber there was a function call drive freqence in brushed esc im not going to go into the technical side but basicly the lower the drive freqency the esc put out the faster the motor would rotate and agian if you remeber you could alter the rate the drive freq would respond though the throttle range a lot of the esc was fixed to preset settings but the ones that could be alterd ko for example were always faster the fast guys didn't have faster cars for no reason.

and again in my opinon the guy who can tune even spec eqiupment will still be faster.

the next question should there be a c rating and mah limit on the lipos?

technolgy has moved on which is good lets just get to grips with and just race.

stu

sorry if ive upset you harden specers
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby discostu » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:33 pm

Shawn Herrington wrote:We won't be with you in the summer and I would like to say it's to give someone else a chance, but you know me :D.
I'm actually locked away indoors all week so like to be outside in the sun when it's shining.

Tried the brushless again at Eastbourne tonight and decided to fiddle with the drag brake this time. Going from zero to 5% makes the car drive much more like a brushed version, but 10% is too much with the back stepping out at every half chance.

Everything else is turned way down from the default settings still as there is quite alot of torque to deal with.
I had one run which was just over 20 minutes long and the motor was barely warm afterwards but I must say my brushed car is still easier to drive at speed at the moment, but we shall get there...

On carpet you shouldn't have half the niggles I'm having to get round on tarmac.


ive just been reading your posts shawn you say it the same speed as a brushed down the straight but wheel spin is an issue you have just contridicted your self now surly if you have more wheel spin than the brushed the motor will have more bottom end power so you would simply gear the car up to stop wheel spin and you would then have more top end now the car is faster than a brushed car so not the same and also why would you give the car drag brake voulentary and induce unnessary heat and slower corner speed.

stu
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby Dan Hamblin » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:22 pm

One observation Stu - we can't gear a Mini up any further! :lol:

Regards,

Dan
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby Simond001 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:30 am

Until testing has been completed it is imposiible to judge which is the closest spec brushless combo to a sealed can motor. The debate is then whether you are trying to match to a Tamiya Sport tuned, Muchmore Clubman or Ansmann.

Currently the Hobbywing 13T looks a good fit. We are also looking at another combo which should be a similar spec (same kv) but with a few added benefits. Available from UK hobby shops, Uk warranty and waterproof.

The 2100kv system is too slow to compete against the current motors in use. An ideal scenario would give us a 2700kv system, non turbo esc.

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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby Shawn Herrington » Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:13 am

Hi Stu.
The Mini's are quite different from the average touring car and conventional thinking tends to go out the window when dealing with them.
They are a very basic Tamiya design and as Dan might have said, we are somewhat limited to the gearing we can use. There's only 3 options available with 20 tooth being the biggest.
You should give them a go sometime, it would be interesting to see what you could do with one. Andy has tried it and although he's a very good Touring Car driver he did look somewhat amateurish with a Mini (sorry Andy :D ). But never the less it appears he liked what he saw and is coming back for more.

Likewise when we race the likes of Chris Kerswell and Jason Butterfield at Moto Arena last year we absolutly thrashed them. We all know they are not bad drivers; it's just what they knew just didn't apply.

Beating the 12th European Champion to 3rd in the final has to be my own personal "Mini Moment"
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Re: Hobbywing EZrun 13T Tam mini

Postby BODYMOT » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:11 pm

discostu wrote:im confused are you guys talking about running brushless non boosted or brushed surly the fairest way is to say you must run this combo example (hobbywing 17.5 motor)or brushed etc in my view the esc should be an open option and and motor should be spec for both brushed and brushless it seems to me the boosted esc is just an excuse for drivers who dont understand how it works to stop everybody else using them in that class.

im just gonna take every body back a few years to brushed setups if you remeber there was a function call drive freqence in brushed esc im not going to go into the technical side but basicly the lower the drive freqency the esc put out the faster the motor would rotate and agian if you remeber you could alter the rate the drive freq would respond though the throttle range a lot of the esc was fixed to preset settings but the ones that could be alterd ko for example were always faster the fast guys didn't have faster cars for no reason.

and again in my opinon the guy who can tune even spec eqiupment will still be faster.

the next question should there be a c rating and mah limit on the lipos?

technolgy has moved on which is good lets just get to grips with and just race.

stu

sorry if ive upset you harden specers

Don’t think we are harden specers, we are just Tam mini drivers who enjoy a slower form of racing that’s fun for us and hopefully for others who try mini racing.
The last thing I want is to cap Touring cars, I say leave alone, why should they be restricted because (some) can’t handle high speed. Be nice if you had a true stock/beginners class, cant be fun for good RC drivers who can race at high speed, lap after lap then have a newcomer with the latest esc and motor in your race who can’t even drive let alone race, smash your car off the track.

Finding the right Sensorless Brushless setup for UK Tam minis that fits in with the motors we run now. We are not trying to fit in with what Touring cars are running, I am all for Brushless in Minis but don’t what to go the same route of software update timing ramping. One brand sensorless esc and motor , what ever make that fits in with our 20T limit brush motors. What ever we choose, it won’t be perfect but a step in the right direction. The brush esc more people are using on my side is fusion podium 12T,
We can change punch setting, some are using Tekin fx pro which can change a lot more setting. Motors, any sealed can motor no less than 20T, Muchmore clubman, HPI 20T, Ansmann 21T, Tam Black can, just to name a few, ok west kent have £50 limit on esc but Sidcup and Maritime have no limit, fusion podium is only £35, Tekin a lot more, but podium is just has fast running the same motors. If Brushless is allowed (what ever make) then think £50 Brush esc limit will have to be dropped.
Eastbourne (Kings of Minis) rules are different from West Kent, Sidcup, Maritime.
Our rules are not perfect but if one brand sensorless Brushless is set for all clubs that can run with the brush setups we run now, it’s a step closer.
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