Mini/Mardave for Summer

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Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby Brian Mills » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:37 pm

Now that the winter season is complete we need to consider what limits to place on the minis and mardaves for racing on the tennis courts this summer.

It would help if the relevant drivers could post their points of view here on what motor and tyre restrictions would be a workable compromise that would accomodate as many drivers as possible without any group feeling excluded. Please bear in mind that any type of additive is expressly forbidden by the school.

Thanks
Brian

PS I understand that Eastbourne now allow front slicks - can any of the EECC guys confirm that - thanks
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby stuart colby » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:50 pm

we allow any mini tyre. we done this as people were finding cheaper alternatives to tamiya tyres and the point of the class is to try and keep it cheap
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby Brian Mills » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:24 pm

Thanks Stuart.
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby Shawn Herrington » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:21 pm

Any Mini tyre sounds reasonable. I have been doing a little homework and found the Aussies rate the recently re-released Pit Shimizu version very highly. Good grip and by all accounts last well.

The tennis courts were much cleaner last weekend and the car got nowhere near as dirty as previously; and hence I prefer it if we keep the black can rule.
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby stuart colby » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:41 pm

at eastbourne we all seem to use the tamiya s-grips anyway all round with the hard insert. some of the lads were playing with the ansmann racing mini tyres. they are cheap but wear quickly. also another lad that comes down is still playing with tyres hes tried a few slicks rp mini slicks etc i will get some feedback from him when i see him next and report back
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby Shawn Herrington » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:52 pm

has anyone tried the HPI x Pattern tyre Stuart?
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby justaddmud » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:19 am

i think the mini racing needs 3 things

1. cheap

2. available

3. level playing field

1. motors and tyres, motors are not to bad as long as they last a few meetings and tyres, well i have seen sets of 4 wheels and tyres on ebay for £7 at that price i dont mind if the fronts only last 2 meetings, that means that for the price of 1 pair of s grip tyres (only tyres) you could almost get 2 sets (8 wheels and tyres) of the others

2. stuff needs to be easy to get hold of, thing break cars crash motors die, that happens, so ideally need to get things replaced this is where my faith in the black cans is lost right now, for such a basic motor that is use till dead then throw away afair it is expensive and not readily available, my current black can hasnt even done 2 complete meetings and appears to have a problem and unlike other motors i cant even strip it to find out what

3. minis are suppose to be fun with close racing so something needs to be done to outline performance maybe depending on motor could use a differnt pinion (easy to check for scruteering)

at the moment if what we need to be competetive and legal is tamiya brushless and tamiya tyres, then it would be cheaper to race an older touring car in the 27t stock class and that to me seems wrong
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby Shawn Herrington » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:02 pm

justaddmud wrote:
ideally need to get things replaced this is where my faith in the black cans is lost right now, for such a basic motor that is use till dead then throw away afair it is expensive and not readily available, my current black can hasnt even done 2 complete meetings and appears to have a problem and unlike other motors i cant even strip it to find out what

at the moment if what we need to be competetive and legal is tamiya brushless and tamiya tyres,


Black Cans are now off backorder and I have managed to get 2 for £25. Ok it was from Hong Kong via Ebay but never the less they are available.
Look after them after each run, and if necessary even alternate between two to let them cool down properly. Keep them clean with re-lubing after each race and they will last for a reasonable amount of time.

Anything with too much grunt and the front tyres will soon have enough. Yes you can go to a smaller pinion to reduce the top end of a 27t but you are going to increase the acceleration and with it the wheel spin.

The brushless motor I had in my car was only in there for the one meeting as I was comparing it to the brushed cars under racing conditions.
My conclusion is; it had the legs at the end of a long straight but any advantage was soon lost through the infield. The car cannot be driven as neatly as with a brushed motor, mainly due to the lack of motor braking. I did try various settings by nothing improved it much.
Look at the times from round 10 and you see there really was no difference over a lap. The standard Tamiya speedo/black can combo is now back in the car.
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby Shawn Herrington » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:23 pm

TYRES

I have been doing some more digging and found this:
Quoted from rc-mini.net

"First up, we use proper Mini-size wheels on our cars as should all of you. The suspension geometry on these cars is designed for this size wheel and Touring Car wheels look stupid and don't work for racing. So, with that as a given we need to investigate what its available.

The most popular tyres are without doubt the belted X pattern mini tyres from HPI (4565). They are readily available and work brilliantly. As far as any of us are concerned these are the tyres to use and you can stick them straight on using the supplied inserts. These are the benchmark for Mini tyres and everything else should be judged against these. And by themselves they are one of the most important changes that you can make to a mini in terms of handling. Even once the tread is worn off they still seem to work fine and we only change them because they're worn through.
One thing you should probably be careful of is to try and make sure that the foam insert is correctly positioned inside the tyre before you glue the tyre on. We've all seen tyres that have 'grooved' along one edge. Often this is caused through an incorrectly positioned insert. HPI make moulded foam inserts (Soft 4650, Hard 4652) that you can also try instead of the soft foam ones that come with the tyres. Having said that, the original foams seem to work better.

Other tyres? Well Tamiya's Type A's in 60D size (53340) can also be made to work too. They have a slightly larger diameter than the HPI's (as do all of the Tamiya 60D size tyres) and as such will give you a slightly higher top speed. But…they don't turn in anywhere near as well so the tiny bit of extra speed is offset by less effective turning. They also don't work as well in higher temps (25 deg C and above) as the HPI's do. Indeed if it's hot they are downright awful. If you decide to try the Type A's, you will also need to change your suspension setup in order to get them to work though. Refer to our suspension guide for details.
There are also mini tyres available from both Ride, RP and Pit Shimizu, all in several compounds for various temperatures. In our experience none of these work anywhere near as consistently well as the HPI's do. These tyres are more like their Touring Car counterparts and you may need a selection of compounds depending on the weather. The other problem is that often they grip TOO much and thats when Minis start to traction roll... The HPI X patterns on the other hand will usually slide a little instead."


Sounds promising don't you think?

Just ordered 2 sets of the HPI X-Pattern for 53usd from RC-Mushroom. In our money that's £35.
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Re: Mini/Mardave for Summer

Postby justaddmud » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:17 am

that is interesting and makes sense, i.e. handeling v top speed i also believe that lower profile tyres will produce less sidewall grip and in theory less grip roll

maybe open tyres should be used for a couple of meetings to judge wear rates grip levels times ect

perhaps there should be simple rules, 1.5" wheel size, tamiya black can, bolt on mods only (no mods that involve cutting (square lipo round hole ect)) and that should give a leval and for some people cheap playing field

also think it might be an idea for maybe the club to sorce a couple of black cans to sell at meetings, good for new members and for existing ones that dont have a spare
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